Episode 5 of Forest Matters features NativState VP of Forestry Tim White discussing the role of forest certification in strengthening credibility, traceability, and market value of forest products and carbon credits. This episode covers:
- How certification provides documented proof of sustainable forest management
- Environmental stewardship, social responsibility, and regulatory compliance
- Recordkeeping and third-party auditing to ensure traceability
- How documentation ultimately increases buyer confidence and price premiums
- Planning, communication, and documenting
- How NativState helps landowners meet certification standards and maintain audit readiness
Transcript
Forest Matters
Episode 5
Summary Keywords
Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), Forest certification, Sustainable forest management, Sustainable Forestry Initiative (SFI), Carbon credits, Risk mitigation, Chain of custody, Recordkeeping, Third-party audit, Compliance documentation, Forest management plans, Harvest contracts, Certified applicators, Herbicide regulations, Timber stand improvement (TSI), Landowner support, Global carbon markets, Traceability, Environmental standards, Certification premiums
Speakers
Mark Fortune, Tim White
Tim White 00:00
One of the most important things the buyers of these carbon credits want to make sure of. Risk is a big thing and it’s real to them and they need to take that in consideration. Is that by being in this certification program, be it FSC or SFI these forests will be managed sustainably. Period. Right. Okay. Because we’re going to follow those standards. And that just gives the potential buyers a little more peace of mind, a little more security, and they’re willing to pay a little bit more for that. So that’s a that’s a good thing. Right?
Mark Fortune 00:48
Welcoming everyone back to the Forest Matters podcast. We have been going through a series of episodes and conversations about sustainable forestry and sustainable forest certification programs. And once again, today, we have NativState vice president of forestry Tim White with us. Hello, Tim.
Tim White 01:06
Good to see you.
Mark Fortune 01:07
Yeah. So we’re going to get into some recordkeeping and audit requirements and all of that in a minute. But for anyone who hasn’t seen our earlier episodes and want a reminder, walk us back through exactly what FSC is to start.
Tim White 01:19
Okay, so FSC is the Forest Stewardship Council. It is a global certification program that certifies forest land. And what does it certify? It certifies that it is, the forests are being managed in a sustainable way, related to not just the trees, but the trees and the wildlife and the biodiversity and the, communities that are involved, the social impacts of that forest, all the things that global partners wish to see in a certification. It’s a little different than the SFI, which is Sustainable Forest Initiative, which is a US based certification, very similar, but still a little bit different. It is the only global globally accepted certification program is FSC.
Mark Fortune 02:04
All right. And as a part of being enrolled in FSC, there are documentation and recordkeeping requirements that are a part of that. Help us understand a little bit about why that’s such a foundational requirement to FSC.
Tim White 02:18
Well, as I told somebody last week, I’ve been managing timber forest, whatever for 45 years or so. And I think I’m doing it sustainably because they’re still around. But the difference is it’s not documented. It is, what did you do? When did you do it? Who did it and why did they do it? So documentation just proves it’s just proof that you followed a sustainable path. You used a certified logger. You use someone who has been trained and inappropriate, logging practices. You’ve used a certified applicator when it came to herbicides. These people are trained not just in what they do, but in all the laws and regulations around their job, their application, whatever that may be. But it’s it’s real critical just to make sure that every role and responsibility is clearly identified. And that’s kind of what that does.
Mark Fortune 03:19
And we’ve touched on this earlier, but let’s let’s touch on it now. Why is that so important given the global market and the nature of of where this.
Tim White 03:30
I just I guess they just don’t trust us for some reason. I don’t know. No, I’m kind of kidding. It’s important because if I want to pick up a cup that’s got the FSC stamp on it, and if it’s documented, I can follow that cup all the way back to the forest from whence it came. If everything’s documented, who harvested it? When was it harvested? On whose land was it harvested? What mill, what mill harvested and what processed it? All the chain of custody is what is called can be followed back. If that’s not documented, it kind of leaves some gaps. Okay. And and the fact that we say, oh, we did it. Don’t worry about it. I know we’re good people and we shoot straight, but it’s just a way of making sure. Because one of the strengths of a of a certification program is the audit process. Okay. And it’s hard to audit on my opinion or my word. They need to see here’s the harvest plan. Here’s a harvest. Here’s a harvest check. Here’s the here’s the the applicator, process that we went through when we applied that herbicide. All that stuff has to be in place for them to be able to audit. Go. Yep. You’re following the standard.
Mark Fortune 04:39
Well, and I think it’s, you said something interesting when you talked about the chain of custody for the cup that might be in your hand. If you think about our business in the forest carbon world. That’s applies to the carbon credits that we generate as well. Correct.
Tim White 04:51
Exactly. So one of the one of the most important things the buyers of these carbon credits want to make sure of. Risk is a big thing, and it’s real to them. And and they need to take that in consideration. Is that by being in this certification program, be it FSC or SFI, these forests will be managed sustainably. Period. Right, okay. Because we’re going to follow those standards. And that just gives the potential buyers a little more peace of mind, a little more security, and they’re willing to pay a little bit more for that. So that’s a that’s a good thing, right?
Mark Fortune 05:26
Well, let’s get into the record keeping. So when you’re working with landowners, which kinds of records of which activities tend to be the most challenging to keep, keep up with or keep track of as you get into it? Is one harder than another.
Tim White 05:40
All the above. So landowners by nature they’re independent landowners. They don’t. A lot of times, sometime, I say a lot of times they don’t plan, like maybe they should. For example. Hey, I want to go spray my food plots, with some glyphosate or roundup, and or I want to go spray my road edges or something like that. I think I’ll do that this weekend. Well, okay. It’s not that you can’t spray stuff. It’s better to say, okay, let’s think about what you’re going to spray, how much you’re going to spray, what you’re going to use, the right you’re going to use, and who’s going to apply it. Is it applied by a certified applicator? It’s a big thing in FSC. Why does that matter? Can’t just John Doe spray that? Yeah he could, but if if he’s not certified and he makes a mistake, then what? You know, certification guarantee comes close to guaranteeing that they’re going to follow the laws or regulations. The application the you, the all read and follow label directions that you always hear about. That’ll be done if you use a certified applicator.
Mark Fortune 06:48
So how do forest managers work with landowners to track the to track those activities, like harvesting or road building and chemical use in those types of activities?
Tim White 07:00
There’s a vast amount of paperwork. For example, the, the probably the first thing to think about or one of the first things is a contract is who’s going to do the work and what kind of work are they going to do? You know, the old saying, fences make good neighbors, right? Well, contracts make for good transactions. It’s it’s not that easy. You know, you can do the work without a contract, but if something ever goes wrong, you’re kind of out on a limb. So the contract should spell out who’s doing what for how much, for how long? Under what standards or or what specifications. And it can get fairly detailed sometimes, especially with a harvest contract. That’s where I see a lot of landowners. They want to harvest timber. They, you know, they call their brother-in-law or their uncle or somebody they know in the business and say, hey, come cut my 40 acres. Fine. Well, and then, as a consultant forester, I used to always get the call after the job was done. And they say, how come he didn’t do this? Or how come he didn’t do that? Or why is this that way? Well, let me see your contract. Well, it’s it’s a half a page. You know, John Doe said I will cut this for this price. Yeah, and that’s not a contract. So that’s the one thing I see a lot of that landowners should be really conscious of is having a good contract that spells out exactly who’s doing what.
Mark Fortune 08:28
So when you’re working with landowners and yes, I mean, it can kind of see somewhat can can feel somewhat onerous about the documentation requirements and FSC but what are some of the misconceptions about how that really works and how we help them manage that?
Tim White 08:40
The biggest one is, oh, I can’t spray any herbicide if I’m in an FSC. That’s not true. You absolutely can’t. Now there are there’s within all the vast amounts of FSC documentation, there are a few herbicides that are for strictly forbidden, like strychnine. Well, probably good reason. So believe it or not. I just learned from a guy, last week he said one of our, his forest management clients, they use strychnine to control moles. They have a or ground hog or something like that. And they had to write that out of their manager saying adopt a different way to manage a strychnine is strictly forbidden for a lot of reasons. It’s it’s very hazardous to humans for one thing. Right. So there are there are some herbicides, insecticides, pesticides that FSC says, no, not at all. But the normal practice of forestry, the, the typical, herbicides you would use in a normal for your practice are absolutely okay to use provided that you document, like I said, when’s it applied, how much is applied, where is it applied, who’s applying it all the basic who, what, where, when, why and how type things and jot all that down. We can help with that. We’ve got logs and records and ways that you can do that. So that when audit time comes, we can say, yeah, here it is right here. And here’s what they did.
Mark Fortune 10:03
Well, that’s a good segue. So let’s talk about FSC audits for a second. How did those come about and how often do those occur. And sort of what’s required in an audit
Tim White 10:10
So the answer to how often is yearly a sample, not all the participants in a group or audit every year, but a sample of those participants are audited every year. It’s up to the group manager, whoever that might be, to, work with their certification body. Another outfit that they, I’ve hired to help with, with the the group to determine what needs to be audited. Typically, if a new parcel is put in, that year, a fairly large partial, it will automatically get audited. For example, we had some in our one of our projects in Louisiana. We just got put in the group and lo and behold, a month later I get a, hey, we’re going to have an audit. Oh, okay. Great. So the there’s an auditor, a third party not related to NativState or the group or whatever. They come and they go down through the, standards and the all the objectives and say, okay, did you do this? Did you do this? And we were supplied with maps and, and, acreages and management plans and all the background information, and they go look on the ground, they actually look on the ground and says, okay, what they do here or did they do anything here, that kind of thing. And that’s what it encompasses a lot. And the the more parcels you have, the, the, the sample gets bigger. Okay. So fortunately we only we only had one that was sampled because we only had a few in that group. But it yeah, happens every year.
Mark Fortune 11:49
Okay. So let’s get to the why behind all this? Because there’s been a whole lot of like, what we do and what goes into it and all of that. But really, how does really good FSC record keeping in enrollment in this in FSC overall help improve confidence in carbon credits and the overall permanence and durability of the of the credits we produce.
Tim White 12:04
So the why there’s there’s really two things about the why. Number one is it is good practice. It is good practice. It’s not something that’s extraneous, something that’s just a no. When you first look at it, you think, oh, why do I have to keep all these records to do all this kind of stuff? But it’s good practice to do that. And there are a certain certain type or level of carbon credit buyer that absolutely requires, I guess, is the best way that this certification be in place. Why? Like I said earlier, it gives them a less of a risky possibility of something happening to this forest. It it gives them a little more security. It is because we are selling credits on a global stage. Now we’re selling them all around the world. It gives them. Okay, this standard is accepted across the world. So we know if they meet this standard. Okay That’s that’s probably a good thing. So it, it generates, a a good type of carbon buyer. And they do pay a little more money for that credit because it is have that certification that’s important to the landowner. Okay. And yes, you’re going to have to keep a few records. Yeah you will, but we can help in 99% of cases. We can help with that.
Mark Fortune 13:27
Well, let’s talk about that. What kind of support does your team and native State provide as a part of FSC enrollment and record keeping and audits?
Tim White 13:35
Okay. So we keep up with our job is to keep up with all the activity that happens on all our participants’ lands. The best way that can happen is if we have good communication between our landowners. I tell people all you have to remember the FSC is, is, three words plan, communicate and document. If you can just remember those three things, then our job will be fairly easy. We’ve got two dedicated registered foresters that do nothing but certifications and looking with working with landowners. We just hired two great guys. That, they’ve been with us a couple months now and they’ve got like the combined like 40 years experience in the business. So they they’ve been around the woods and they know, they know what to look at. And they’ve been exposed to FSC and SFI as well. So we will have people there that you can call on. And and like I said, the best thing you can do is think ahead and think ahead. Call us and say, hey, you know, I was thinking about maybe doing a harvest or maybe doing something, great. I had a strange thing. I had a call this morning. Guys want to plant some trees not even related to SFI or FSC, but he just picked up the phone and called me out of the blue, which was good. I’m tickled, about give him some advice and some some guidance on, on how you need to do that. So, that’s the main thing is just communicate with us, even if you’re not sure, we would love for you to call us as
Mark Fortune 15:05
Well. So you you kind of answered my concluding question, which was going to be, what’s the one thing a landowner needs to make sure they do? Let’s see. Let’s go over it again.
Tim White 15:14
Plan, communicate, document okay. Will take care of a lot of the documents because we have to gather all that information for 6 or 700 landowners in our whole all of our projects. So we’ve we’re going to have a system. We do have a system to keep up with. Okay. So-and-so’s pre harvest form and so-and-so’s post harvest form and so-and-so’s chemical application form and all this all that. Well we already have that. But just to know hey especially a lot of the landowners have received a forest management plan for us. And they probably looked at and go wow, that’s a lot. Understand. But but when you start dissecting that, it’s stand by stand. We’ve got a recommendation. What should you do? Well, this thing says TSRI what is that love to explain what timber stand improvement is and how you could accomplish that and I have I began last week qualifying a list of contractors that can do this type of work. They have to be once again with FSC, we have to certify that they have insurance and they’re properly trained and all those things. So we have to do that with these contractors, and we’re not going to recommend a contractor that’s not pass the certification that we have to have. So that’s another thing that I’ve been working on. And we’ll have a pretty good list in Arkansas, Louisiana, especially of guys and gals that can do this type of work.
Mark Fortune 16:31
So it’s just important for landowners to remember we’re here to support you. And that’s and rolling with us means the whole forest management.
Tim White 16:38
Yes.
Mark Fortune 16:39
You know, the whole organization’s here to make sure that everything’s done correctly.
Tim White 16:43
Correct.
Mark Fortune 16:44
Because that’s how we benefit.
Tim White 16:45
Yes.
Mark Fortune 16:46
All right. Well, Tim, thanks so much for your time and look forward to talking to you again.
Tim White 16:48
Well thank you.
Mark Fortune 16:49
All right.